Video 13

13. Katha Upanishad | Mantras 1.2.8 - 10 | Swami Sarvapriyananda

[Music] may the lord protect us both the teacher and the taught together by revealing knowledge may the lord protect us both by giving us the results of knowledge whether i keep saying results of knowledge it means enlightenment moksha the result of enlightenment would be moksha may we attain vigor together let what we study be illuminating maybe not careful at each other home peace peace peace right so in our study of the qatar panishad we are on mantra number uh six seven eight but when i say mantra number eight uh remember the qatar condition the structure of the text is that it has two chapters and each chapter has three sections so we are in the first chapter second section and mantra number eight 1.2.8 [Music] so the mantra goes like this [Music] itself is not certainly adequately known when spoken of by an inferior person for it is sort of variously when taught by one who has become identified with it there is no further cogitation with regard to it for it is beyond argumentation being subtler even than the atomic quantity okay whatever now let's go into uh what has been said here remember the context the lord of death yama has uh tested nachi keta and ajikita the little boy who's this seeker in this case has passed all the tests with flying colors and then yama points out the distinction between spiritual life and worldly life it's a very important distinction um that the two opposite things you know why not have both together swami i mean ashokan energy would you know humorously say if somebody tells you why not both let's have um you know pleasure and you know the things and ambitions in the world power and money and all of that that that will give me satisfaction plus i will also become an enlightened person a buddha or something like that and all of it together will be that sounds great it does sound great and actually there is nothing contradictory about it also what is contradictory is the the underlying paradigm what i mean by that is what do i think of myself and what do i think about these things this search for worldly pleasure and money and the status and power if i think i am this limited individual and i will gain lasting happiness satisfaction by pursuing sense pleasures by pursuing money by pursuing power and fame then that is samsara that is samsara but if i am looking for my real nature which is infinite existence consciousness plays that i am one with god and that is where i will find lasting uh bliss uh profound satisfaction that is where i will transcend suffering then that is spiritual life that is spirituality and in that one may be an emperor one may have a lot of power and be very powerful and very rich or one may be a you know absolutely penniless with not a single possession but one will be completely satisfied and full uh if one has realized that ultimate nature of ourselves of the of this existence so that is spiritual life the two cannot be combined because one is of the nature of maya of error of falsity and the other one spirituality is of the nature of truth of reality you can't combine reality and falsity together it's like saying if the rope is appearing as the snake what enmity have you got with the snake let a little bit of the snake stay a little bit of the rope stay swami ashokan used to joke about it those who tell you to combine spirituality and and materialism uh it's like saying on one hand you have uh a cup of poison and on the other a cup of nectar why not combine take a sip of the poison and take a sip of the nectar too have both it can't be done it's meaningless it's like saying what do you have against dreams be awake that's great but also dream a little and combine both have a live a little bit in the dream world little bit in the waking life at the same time that's not possible that's that's just sleepwalking you know that's exactly what the buddha said he was i mean what he had arisen from when he says i am the buddha i am the awakened i have arisen from this life of sleepwalking that half awake half asleep dreaming through our lives so yama says these are two distinct paths and one leads into samsara leads into the cycle of birth and death leads into suffering when we awaken from that and awaken to our true spiritual glory that is the path of spirituality the higher religion let us say and then it is there it's the common property of all the great religious traditions of the world it is the core i think of all the great religious traditions of the world um and o nachiketa you have chosen the latter the spiritual path not the path of materialism of worldliness of the cycles of births and deaths so you are fit now he is talking about the unique nature of the spiritual knowledge and the importance of a competent teacher who will transmit the spiritual knowledge it's a very beautiful mantra and very profound and here the commentator gives an extensive commentary we'll take a look at that so the mantra is this knowledge so this this mantra is about spiritual knowledge about enlightenment and what are the what's the importance of an enlightened teacher and he says this spiritual knowledge this enlightenment is not achievable not attainable if it is taught by um an unenlightened teacher or more than unenlightened what the commentator says by the inferior teacher whose understanding is materialistic it's very interesting use of you know the description who is the lower teacher who is the inferior teacher the teacher whose the the mind is engrossed in in the material understanding uh prakrita buddhi means prakriti means nature buddhi means the intellect which is caught in enmeshed enmeshed in nature so what i see or i experience with my senses my knowledge is based upon that and i build up a naturalistic understanding of the universe and it's excellent for science it's excellent that's what you should do but i come to conclusions about the destiny human destiny about spirituality about the existence of god my own real nature all of that based on this understanding then you will never get to spirituality that way um one sadhu and uttarakhands put it very nicely i'll tell you in hindi and then translate he says if you start with matter you're going to end up with matter if you start with consciousness you'll end up with consciousness a very profound insight if you start with the object you will get an objective view of things of of this world but you inquire within within yourself into your own awareness you'll end up with ultimate reality which is atman brahman swami vivekananda he gives a very cautionary warning he says do not dwell too much in in matter for it makes the mind the human soul more material the more you dabble with matter that means one who has already is under the influence of the superimposition superimposition means i am this body i am this mind i am this limited personality i the pure consciousness and this is occluded hidden from me and i think of myself as this little person now we are all in the same boat but if the teacher is like that then all teaching will become filtered through that so by such a teacher if the self is taught who am i what am i start you will never get get anywhere close to that i remember seeing a book 10 theories of human nature none of them told them told you that you're pure consciousness some said you're a social animal some say you're an economic animal some said you're you are a product of your brain and nervous system all true to a certain extent why not to a certain extent but all very superficial what are you in essence really what's behind all of that to be an economic animal a social animal a freudian creature a creature defined by you know the nerves and the brain all of that is possible only first of all you are consciousness itself then these layers can come on top of you but if you are not awareness what is all this i mean can you think of a you know non-aware you you but you are not aware but you are also an economic creature a social creature and uh a psychoanalytic creature no impossible the core of what it means to be a sentient being that is not at all touched by any other kind of analysis so by this kind of teacher it is not possible to realize the highest truth about oneself [Music] because what is the problem various are the theories of the self various other theories of the self vedanta tells us what we are and ultimately that we are infinite existence consciousness bliss but that's vedanta but if you look at all the other theories of self for example in ancient india you had a wide range of theories of self if you remember the class on vedanta sara there was a chapter inquiring into who am i if those who have attended that class you will remember it starts with i am my son so what every parent feels it starts with that i am my child then it comes to i am what am i i am the body what am i i am the sensory system and mind what am i i am this intellect which is trying to understand everything i have intelligence itself what am i and something beyond intelligence the state where before intellect is there conscious and unconscious state for example in deep sleep the causal state something we're so subtle that nobody none of us think about or i am emptiness itself each of these theories had a pedigree a philosophical pedigree there were char workers materialists who thought you are the body and only the body whatever you are they don't deny that you are aware that you are conscious but this is that awareness consciousness mind all of those are products of the body they didn't have our fancy neuroscience but they used a very nice example which indians will immediately recognize you see when you eat pan in a chew pan the red color which is produced there's no red color an ingredient in the pan but when you chew it all the ingredients mix together and then they produce a red color your tongue and your lips get colored red the peculiar example but what they want to say is that because of the mixture of ingredients in the body a certain new thing is produced there which was not there earlier which is consciousness now the palm theory of consciousness it may sound crude but in principle it's not very different from mainstream materialistic reductionism that consciousness is somehow the fine electrical activity going on in our brain somehow it is that nothing more than that and you won't believe the amount of effort that is put into it i took this course at harvard two years back the philosophy of mind and the whole syllabus the whole textbook by the way the textbook was edited by david thomas who might refer a number of times so the whole textbook can be neatly divided into two parts one saying that for these these reasons consciousness is nothing but brain or nothing but a confusion of language nothing but behavior nothing but so as one philosopher nicely put it this is called nothing buttery nothing buttery so all of this trying to reduce consciousness to something that is material and the other group of papers saying sorry guys it doesn't work none of them are convincing that consciousness reducing it to behavior or brain it's not convincing it's not working and for certain reasons and that's where the state of the art is the whole subject is frozen there there are so many theories of self none of them talk about our real nature and yama says it is because you are being taught by teachers whose mind is trapped in materialism then he goes on so many many theories are there commentators says about the self so many theories are there asti nasty there is and ultimately there is an ultimate self some say there is not no some say the self is an agent of action some say the self is not an agent of action some say the self is pure consciousness some say this consciousness plus matter mixed in there so all of these theories abound and there is confusion there then who can teach us the real nature of the self which will free us from samsara he says an interesting term is used for the ideal teacher ananya non different teacher literally means not different the non-different teacher means here he says the master who is who does kusi's oneness who is who says that i am brahmana i means the master the master has realized that i am brahman did this one reality appearing as many so in all this diversity underlying it is one reality and i am that and this this master has realized and such a master is called ananya ananya means the one of non-different vision okay that's a good way of putting it not different who does not see diff now again one has to be careful here does not see difference means what can clearly see that we are different if the master is here and he sees 94 people present here we'll say all right so there are 94 people present it's not that the master will say oh there's one person present here master sees all the differences that we see all of that but see something deeper and more fundamental which we don't see the underlying oneness master can see the thousand waves in the ocean but also see that is one mass of water is literally without any division it is one mass of water similarly in all living beings it is one consciousness shining forth in all non-living things and all entities from the tiniest proton and quark to quasars and galaxies it is one unlimited existence and that is my real nature so this is called the anonymous what a tremendous thing that the term is itself very pregnant with meaning by the master who sees non-difference that's a precise translation such a master teaches this how does he teach this [Music] who teaches what does he teach that you are the infinite it doesn't teach that um you are mind or body or you are a separate consciousness from ev or everything else like sankey would teach you are a separate consciousness everybody else is a separate consciousness not even that you are uh he says brahmatma you are drama you are that ultimate reality just as i am as just as everybody else is the one who teaches in that way he just means of course doesn't just say you are brahman that's it it's done no um systematically you know you come to the vedanta class and you do this enquiry and then you you see for yourself so vedante is a philosophy which is trying to get us to see something i see the highest reality about ourselves and then he says now this is a little difficult to translate and not difficult means there are multiple translations each very beautiful very profound the english translation here is swami gambiranji says gatirathra nasti is when taught by one who has become identified with it there is no further conjugation with regard to it all right but we'll have to go deeper than that one meaning is all these different theories which you different philosophers have put forth you know ancient indian philosophers who say the materialists say you are the body or somebody says you're the mind somebody says you are intelligence itself somebody says your emptiness or whatever it is all these different theories they do not trouble you anymore because you see the reality which is underlying all of them and you can even understand why they've come up with these theories it's these are like limiting cases of a general theory the general theory being the advaithic idea of an infinite existence consciousness and under certain circumstances in a certain way of thinking each of those philosophies can be seen as subsets or as you know by product or not byproducts subsets let's say of of a general set which is the advaithic understanding um there's a beautiful phrase with the commentator uses i'll translate phrases server vikalpa alternative theory pratyastha means comes to a rest or dissolves in this realization of the infinite self okay that's a good translation you realize yourself as a boundless self everything that is experienced and not experienced yet everything that is possible is an appearance of one undivided reality which you are not a part of it not a fraction of it whole of it and in fact there is no whole and part relationship there there is only that one that's our real nature and there all these um you know various theories they come to a rest there that they're all transcended there is no no further um debate possible there yeah so let's put it that way all debates come to a rest there then or to put it briefly all doubts about the self sees this is so vivid so blazing forth there can be no more doubt if you look up at the sun don't look up at the sun but if you do look up at the sun you cannot you cannot deny the existence of this this tremendous light blazing down at you similarly you cannot deny when one comes to an understanding of this unlimited consciousness which we are which makes everything else possible in our lives then there is really it's impossible to deny its existence deny its infinitude and see that everything else every other theory is pointing towards it but does not quite reach it then another commentator another interpretation what are we interpreting here the term gati ratranas there is no further constitution with regard to it so one interpretation is no more doubt with regard to it why doubts multiple theories were there whether in ancient india you had the theory vaishashika theory the multiple buddhist theories the viganava the sunni wada theory or the sankhya theory all theories of the self charvaka materialist theory all of them are extinguished in this non-dual understanding of the cell or you can have modern theories of the cells and i just mentioned 10 theories of human nature so all of that is extinguished in this realization of the non-dual self then another interpretation of there is no further concentration gati the word gati is being played upon here so what is he saying um [Music] this is the highest and final uh this is the the highest and uh final knowledge once you realize this unlimited consciousness you realize every other knowledge is actually an appearance in this consciousness think about it this consciousness is is the basis of all our experience whenever you are having thoughts ideas memories consciousness is constant underlying all our ideas all our memories desires emotions happy unhappy loving irritated hatred all of that one thing is constant continuously untouched is awareness consciousness it makes possible all our experiences therefore it makes possible all other theories also all of our understanding various models of consciousness they all depend on this one consciousness so he says this is the ultimate goal or the culmination of all knowledge ultimately all knowledge converges here there's nothing further to be known after this and he says all right so what does that mean another play on the word gati gatti also means movement in sanskrit many indian languages also movement in the spiritual context gati means this movement from lifetime to lifetime this cycle of birth and death so he says here if it is properly taught then this constant movement coming and going being born and aging disease covered dying being reborn again and going through other experiences and again dying and going through it again and again this whirling around it stops so this this knowledge will put a stop to this samsara this limited existence why should that be good news because it's a limited existence and what you what we are being promised instead is an infinite unlimited existence then another interpretation of is he says if it is properly taught what does it mean if it is properly taught there is no possibility of not realizing so grati here means realization non-realization is not possible so he is reading gati here as agathi which means non-realization if it is taught by an enlightened master of course to a prepared student then enlightenment is guaranteed you are going to realize it there is no other way you have no escape even if you don't want to you will become enlightened suramar krishna gives the example of of the cobra and the water snake he says once he saw in inductionish or in the temple garden he was walking and he heard a croaking of a frog in distress later he was walking by the same path and he heard the frog croaking in distress so he went to look what's going on he saw that a water snake had caught hold of a big frog now the frog was big and the water's lake was not big or strong enough and so as ram krishna put it both of their pain continued this the frog was couldn't escape and yet was not dying and the water snake had caught hold of it couldn't let go of it and couldn't swallow it so she says that's what happens when an inferior guru catches hold of a student so both of their pain continues the guru cannot transmit enlightenment and the student doesn't get enlightened and there is a lifelong struggle you know dissatisfaction from both sides but he says in contrast he says if a cobra catches the frog he says it it's over in three croaks it croaks the frog croaks once and twice and by the third crook it is gone it's finished similarly if a master an enlightened master catches hold of you you're done for in three groups that means whether you like it or not you'll be enlightened and freed in this very life enlightened master will make sure that you get freedom um so ami trigunati who was the swami in charge of our vedanta society in northern california in in san francisco he was a tough man you know before him swami turiananda was there was a strict vedanti but also very dependent on divine divine mother as the mother wills he would say for everything so an american disciple writes about the change of the two swamis swami turian on the event and swami trigonometry this american disciple writes that the swami does not believe in living leaving things to the mother that means the new swami does not believe in leaving things to the mother he was a very up and doing swelling a very interesting character but uh tough so in response to a complaining late a letter from an american lady you know who felt that he was being too harsh on his disciples he writes back to her madam i have taken responsibility for you therefore it is my responsibility to to drag you to the shores of the ocean of immortality and throw you in there if on the way i break a few of your bones i do not care so he says i'm guaranteeing you this is such a great great fortune i'm guaranteeing you enlightenment and freedom in this very life but it's going to be tough for you so here he says what is the new interpretation of ghatirat nasti is is that there will be no chance of being unenlightened you will all be freed if you fall in the hands of such a teacher then so the commentator comments here shankaracharya this self this infant itself is actually it's not difficult to be uh to realize what it is it is actually pretty easy to realize if the master is enlightened and the master uses he says agama the upanishadic method here by upanishading method one need not be fanatical about it that it's only the upanishads it's basically this bunch of this you know whole set of pointers which are found in the mystical traditions of all religions the enlightened master uses these techniques and of course it is assumed that the student is also ready then it is easy enlightenment is not difficult god realization ramadan realization i am brahman he says it's easy and then he also says here we otherwise what happens is it's impossible without the help of an enlightened master without these pointing out techniques he says it is impossible because number one anion anup pramana it is very subtle subtler than even an atom the atom is the tiniest particle of matter they had this concept in ancient india in fact the very word anu which means atom in most indian languages is actually a term found in the veishika philosophy so thousands of years ago they had this concept of atoms as being the tiniest particle of matter and here it's used as an example so even it's subtler than the tiniest particle of matter by this he means yama means it is not an object of our senses there's nothing that we could discover about the self by you know seeing hearing smelling tasting touching we say oh of course i don't mean that i mean i don't i'm not saying that i can see the self ultimate reality but no not even by any instrument which extends the power of our senses see all the scientific instruments that we use whether they are electron microscopes or you know powerful telescopes looking out into the farthest reaches of space they are all basically extensions of our senses even um say particle accelerators and all they what do they do they gather data very subtle data based on which we make hypothesis and try to prove or disprove our theories but that's those are all extensions of sense experience and he says it is not available for sense experience even the most subtlest kind of sense experience why not why not and we know why not because it's not an object objects that which appears to consciousness you can know it through the senses you can use instruments you can use logic and reasoning you can think about it you can speak about it but this is not an object it is the subject which reveals all objects it is the consciousness underlying all objects so it is not a sub it is not something that you can reveal with senses it's not something that you can reveal with reasoning or with um you know with language none of them can objectify the self because it's not an object you can't reason argue our way towards the enlightenment means this reality our own nature is not subject to reasoning that means you cannot argue your way reason your way to enlightenment and shankaracharya just by argumentation just by reasoning you will never come to a firm conclusion you may come to a conclusion that can be attacked and critiqued by another person a more clever philosopher can come and give up you know a better theory or a different theory and that is the whole history of philosophy here is a reality and here are certain pointers upanishads to give you the pointers but you cannot so why not go straight to the open issues and use the pointers and become enlightened it won't work they have to be skillfully employed by a person who has actually realized it who has actually realized i am brahman and in the hands of that person these texts can serve as powerful pointers and help us to realize our real nature so this is the meaning of this mantra very good mantra this truth that i am brahman cannot be realized if it is taught by a person whose intellect is materialistic it has multiple there are multiple theories about the nature of the self who who can teach teach it to us infallibly by the one who has realized i am brahmana the seer of non-difference by that master when it is taught taught how with the help of these upanishadic pointers in that case gati rather nasty and multiple meanings were given to this kathiratra nasty one was that all the theories will come to an end here all the doubts you know different theories you see that this is the ultimate truth another one was this is the end of all knowledge there's nothing beyond this another meaning of this is your samsara comes to gati means the continuous movement across lifetimes that comes to an end you are free and um another meaning was agathy nasty there will be no non-comprehension the hands of a competent teacher you will become enlightened it's not so difficult it's not so difficult otherwise he says it's it's impossible because without this kind of procedure without the help of the upanishads otherwise it's impossible because what you're talking about is subtler than an atom that means no instrument can reveal it and it is also not subject to being argued about you can't reach a firm conclusion about the atman by arguing about it you might say that but swami you give so much of philosophical argumentation yes but all of that sort of follows it's what is called um that means reasoning based upon the pointers provided by the upanishads you see this truth then all the reasoning that you give afterwards is like rope ladders being let down suppose the person you want to go to the roof and somebody has gone up to the roof and the person on the roof lets down these ladders to us helps us to climb up so those are the reasons it's not generally reasoning it's not uh free thinking i'm here let me think whatever comes to my mind no this person who's giving us all this reasoning is has already attained this this sage in the upanishadic's age has already attained this and is giving us a way of trying to a way of seeing what he is seeing that is behind all that all the reasoning the viveka the pancha kosha viveka you know the seer and the scene the five layers of the human personality avastatra are the three states waking dreamings deep sleep all the different vedantic reasoning it's all just different methodologies being given to us so that if you follow that path what do you say follow the cookie crumbs or the breadcrumbs as the story goes and then you you find your way out of the maze that's the kind of reasoning which is used in vedanta before i go ahead let me see there's some comments abhijit says various theories about the self can be seen as finite approximations of the infinite yes and this is from the advaithic perspective non-dual perspective from that perspective you begin to see why such philosophers may have said such things and different you know different paradigms now again it is what we are seeing those philosophers will say that no these are not limitations i have got the final truth just like you non-dualist you are saying you've got the final truth the highest truth the sankhya will say i've got the final truth the buddhist will say i've got the final truth the nayaka will say i've got the final truth so we are also saying the same thing we have got the final truth but from our perspective you begin to see how those other things could also be said under certain limiting circumstances they are finite approximations of the infinite yes sravani says is there any difference in the reflected self chidabhasa in waking state and sleep state yes the reflected consciousness which is what we we experience right now uh that is distinctly available in the waking state right now we are aware you feel aware we all of us feel aware is this this infinite consciousness no well yes and no no because it is subject to you know being reflected in the mind it illuminates our various experiences of waking dreaming of our thoughts our sense perceptions but yes it is the same as the ultimate consciousness because it's like moonlight and sunlight that's a good example moonlight is sunlight and yet it is not sunlight without sunlight no moonlight is possible so without that pure consciousness that ultimate awareness this this pleasant awareness reflected consciousness is also not possible but this reflected consciousness is a limited thing and it is limited by each mind so for example that ultimate awareness pure consciousness how many one without a second reflected consciousness how many many many many as many minds so many reflected consciousnesses okay so in a waking state the reflected consciousness is there in deep sleep state when the mind shuts down so it's like the um if you take away the mirror the reflection will go away similarly if the mind shuts down in deep sleep the reflected consciousness goes away but pure consciousness is always there is always finite yes as chidavas it's always finite is it experienced as infinite by enlightened beings it is its infinite nature is the pure consciousness the two words means pure consciousness means reflection shadow shadow consciousness reflected consciousness so reflect the pure consciousness infinite and the shadow consciousness or reflected consciousness is not infinite but it's it's nothing other than the pure consciousness so for example is moonlight sunlight well yes and no in in one sense without sunlight no moon light so in one sense moonlight is sunlight but there is a certain meaning to calling it moonlight because it's reflected from the moon and it is used to do some things at night which sunlight does not do directly what in the sanskrit translation allows one to use the opposite word in place of the word used in the text gati and agathi this is because of sanskrit grammar so if you chant it together you can you can interpret it with an extra ah so you chant it together gadhiratra nasti it can also be agathi rathra nasty so that allows the commentator to play around with the meaning also kalpana says is the same as brahmanista for master or something more subtle is indicated this very very good question and in fact all that i said just now about this uh mantra it can be summarized by just these two words shrotriya brahmanista see when you talk about an enlightened master in vedanta what is meant is specifically this what are these two terms srotria dramanistra brahmanista means one who centered in brahman was realized i am brahman and is centered there can one realize and not be centered there is a discussion about that but anyway so brahmanista is centered in brahman and is effortlessly established in the identity i am rahman just like right now i might be effortless effortlessly established in the identity i am server priyan and i don't have to put any spiritual practice into being server priyanka similarly the enlightened one is effortlessly established in i am this infinite awareness but also shruthriya sriya means well versed in the scriptural tradition in the vedantic tradition notice the commentator said the enlightened one who sees non-different uses the pointers given in the upanishads to lead one to enlightenment to lead the student to enlightenment in order to use the pointers given in the upanishad one must be well versed in this teaching tradition in the scriptural tradition so who can be a master not just an enlightened one and not just a scripturally learned one but both so one must know the truth for oneself and also be aware of the the teaching tradition so that you can transmit it it's quite you know just like we have all experienced in our childhood we knew there were so many teachers who we had teachers school teachers and college teachers who were experts in their subject we knew we always felt that this teacher knows a lot but can't teach we always have the experience of such teachers you know you feel that oh he or she knows his subject or her subject but is not a good teacher so you have to be enlightened and to be a good teacher you must be versed in the tradition it's being versed in the tradition here it means the non-dual vedanta tradition but let's just say there is a teaching tradition in all the traditions of you know the spiritual traditions of humanity in all the schools of hinduism and also in buddhism jainism in all religions in fact and so one must be well versed in that in order to transmit it one can be an enlightened person but you may not be very effective in transmitting that okay so yes entire mantra which we just talked about it can be summed up in these two words yama is saying that the enlightened master has to be a shrotriya brahmanist brahmanista and with such a master enlightenment is inevitable you will become enlightened without such a master it's very difficult he says and why is it difficult because the subject matter is extraordinarily subtle and it is beyond the capacity of unsupported reason reason by itself free thinking without any kind of support from the upanishads rita matu says is it correct to say the repetition of some mantra such as mahava can lead to self-realization other mantras are for the understanding the idea of brahman etc uh no mahavakas are not mantras mantras which are used for repetition um you know like say om nama shivaya for example om namo bhagavati vasudeva these are mantras used for repetition in order to cultivate certain power spiritual attitude you suffuse your mind in the power of these mantras the attitude or the spiritual let's see the spiritual fragrance generated by these mantras but the mahavak is i am brahman or that thou art that to mercy they are not meant for repetition i have mentioned this earlier also in certain circumstances i mean in some in some classes these are meant for realization i am brahmana is not something that it's meant for you can repeat it it's not a bad thing to repeat i am ramana abraham brahman and go on repeating it but it's something that you must come to see for yourself when it the upanishad says that there is no way that you will not realize it's not does not mean that you keep on repeating amram it means that you come to see for yourself oh i am not this body mind i am this one unlimited awareness shining through this body and mind and this body and mind are also nothing different from that awareness in fact this entire universe is appearing in media awareness i am not a body with some awareness i'm awareness with in which body mind are manifesting so this one must come to see dima says what is the transmission of enlightenment from teacher to master teaches to student you mean does this mean that the methods of listening reasoning and meditation all we gain is the knowledge of what is not self made be patient for the self to reveal itself from teachers to students no the method of listening reasoning and meditation is what the enlightened master guides us through and the knowledge of what is not self and the knowledge of the self they come simultaneously once you realize i am not this what we are is directly manifest in fact it's right now directly manifest it's just that we are not seeing it we are not seeing it because we have locked ourselves into thinking that these things this mind and this personality and this body this is who i am i am continuously missing the fact that i am this unlimited awareness on in which this mind and body and personality are appearing they did that one we are missing we have mixed it up that story of the washerman stone which i had said earlier we had the same unlimited awareness is there but we are using it just like the washer man was using the stone which was a diamond he was using it for scrubbing clothes dirty laundry we are using the same unlimited awareness for what for seeing hearing smelling tasting touching for thinking quarreling loving hating being disappointed frustrated angry being happy delighted for waking dreaming sleeping all of these are possible because of that one unlimited consciousness but we don't recognize it so this recognition comes with the help of the master who guides us to it through a process of shavana manana nidhithyasana listening reasoning and meditation listening from the master reasoning guided by the master and what meditation has to be done the master also tells us with the help of the text that it's all there in the texts srinivas raju says am i right in understanding that consciousness limited by the adjunct of india in deep sleep leads us to realize in the waking state that i slept happily and did not know anything all right this is a question about deep sleep consciousness limited by the adjunct avidya in deep sleep yeah that's the condition of consciousness in deep sleep and because of that in the waking state we have this cognition or recognition i slept happily and did not know anything correct correct and let me go ahead the same thought is further developed by yama in the um next mantra which is the ninth mantra proton foreign so the english translation is this wisdom that you have or dearest one which leads to sound knowledge when imparted only by someone else other than the logician is not to be attained through argumentation you are or com compassionable one and never you seen this usage oh compassionable one endowed with true resolution may our our questionnaire be like you onachiketa so this is a high praise of the student first of all he says the wisdom that you have now he does he's not enlightened yet nothing is not yet enlightened but he says this preparation which you have you are very clear that there is the spiritual life there is the spiritual knowledge which is the saving knowledge which will which is actually the goal of all human life you are very clear about that and all that others are immersed in this worldliness that you have given up very clearly this is knowledge this is this is this clarity you have got and it this knowledge which you are seeking it can be imparted by the enlightened master not by the professional philosopher a logician not by a sophist and he is using terms of great affection for nachiketa actually and he says you are endowed with true resolution true grit spiritual life as in all great things in life resolution is necessary i will become enlightened in this very lifetime why not it is my real nature why will i not um realize it why would i not find it and then he says something very nice he says let all our students be like you onachiketa so this is the prayer of all vedanta teachers throughout the ages they all want students like natchi keta i'm happy to say we have so many nuchiketas here we are spiritual seekers so not only the student is blessed but the teacher is also blessed to get good students yama is very happy to see this and then the next mantra i'll just mention that and i have to i'll wrap up is interesting here yama does a little bit of biographical reflection we learn more about who or what he is actually lord of death says something about himself tenth mantra [Music] tattoo since i know that this treasure is impermanent for that permanent entity cannot be attained through impermanent things therefore knowingly did i pile up the nachiketa fire with impermanent things and have thereby attained this relative permanence what is he saying here he's saying that i too once was a human being an ordinary mortal like you i'm a god now but i was ordinary mortal like you um and i knew just like you know i knew eternal reality cannot be attained through these impermanent things whether worldly or otherworldly heavenly all of these come to an end all of the treasures that can be gained by you know vedic ritualism you can go to the higher worlds and heavens all of that has an end they're all part of samsara they're all part of maya i knew that but here is the difference between you and me and he's such great praise of the little boy he says you have set it all aside and you want only enlightenment you want only spirituality you want only god realization self-realization but what i did was i performed those vedic rituals in order to get this position i have got now so he says the nachike taught me that particular vedic ritual which i have taught you already he that was the second good i've already given this to you i use that and by that special knowledge i attain to this post this status of being a god and that to the god of death yama so these are positions these are gods with small g not capital g capital g god is saguna brahman ishwar there's only one and that's an absolute reality um nirguna brahman is the absolute reality of which sagunda brahman is well it's the same thing basically but there's only there's a technical difference there um i'll tell you one interesting experience i had but before that let me conclude this verse so in this mantra he says i actually you are superior to me you realize this that ultimately only enlightenment god realization is real all of the rest even the best things that the earth and heaven can offer to you even those things are limited and you have given up all that and you have said i want only enlightenment well i was not like you even though i had that kind of an understanding i still went ahead and you know tried to get for myself the best that the world and heaven could give me and here i am a god yes later i worked hard for it and i attained enlightenment so he's an enlightened master it's not that he's not enlightened but he later became enlightened but he is he's a god of death because before that he went through that process of doing the nachi keta ritual and getting the result of that which is for for which he is now the god of death so that's what he has said here it's a kind of self-confession that uh you know you little boy you are actually as far as spiritual stuff goes you are superior and that happens you know i i can tell you honestly i have taught monastic novices for eight years that means 40 each year 40 to 88 years so 8 years would make 160. um and uh i have seen these young men who have come to be monks they are much younger than me they have just started their monastic life but i can see that some of them in each batch of 40 they may be one or two all of them are good young people and they all have become for spiritual purposes but some of them one or two maybe in each patch who clearly are superior i mean just by the very nature the way they take to spiritual life they take to meditation they take to service and prayer and and devotion all these qualities are so naturally manifest in them how did it happen it's clearly that they have been spiritual seekers in past lives probably so yama does something like that here tonight he says you're much younger than you're a little boy i'm the god of death and yet i think you are you know of a higher caliber than i am all right one more point and i'll just finish it's just something that i saw i'll share this just because the topic came up what is the relationship between the ultimate reality brahman nirguna brahman i mean attributeless brahman and god the god of religion from an advaithic perspective from an advaita vedanta perspective this is something that i saw in the lake a couple of weeks back in central park i was walking in central park in the lake i saw the fall colors reflected you know the trees gold and red and brown um the gorgeous colors they are reflected in the lake sky is reflected in the lake uh clouds are reflected in the lake very beautiful and yet now just consider the lake itself what is there in the lake are there trees in the lake are there clouds in the lake is there a sky in the lake no there is just water there's just water in the lake so if you stick to the strict truth what is that lake it's just water and nothing else even where it clearly looks like a forest in full fall colors and it clearly looks like a cloudy sky it's nothing but water it's not even water plus a forest it's not even water plus clouds and sky no it's just water and only water if you stick to that just water and only water that is the absolute reality that's what advaita vedanta talks about that's the only reality that there is but if you take the appearance in itself the whole thing that is this water but also what appears in it then that is god that forget for the time being the actual trees on the shore and the actual sky above that's not included in the example this is an example just the water plus the entirety the magnificent display appearing in the water that is god the god of um of religion the ultimate reality in which the whole universe is appearing the ultimate reality in which there's no universe at all there's no there's only god in god or only brahman in brahman that's the only thing that there is that is the absolute inaudible but you can see how it's the same thing basically it's the same water regardless of whether you take into account the reflection or you do not okay um geeta deep says does the brahmanista master have some more powers and discrete scriptural knowledge to help his students achieve enlightenment just like sriram krishna is to certainly transmit certain powers to his disciples i'm not here powers are not meant but the enlightened master sees the truth so it's much easier for the enlightened master to transmit that knowledge to the student it's like say a professor who has understood what the textbooks are teaching and then teaches it another one who has is not particularly clear but has a textbook and is teaching what's in the textbook the first teacher will be much more powerful much more effective that's not a bad example but here you're clearly seeing what the reality is and you are using the upanishads the pointers given in these texts to help the student to come to that same vision you're helping the student to see what you are seeing if you don't see you may be able to help the student but not very effectively srinivas raju says for ishwara there is no distinction between sagoon and nigram for nobody there's a distinction between sagun and gunabram and these are conceptual distinctions but remember from [Music] and you see let me bring us into that picture now bring to your mind the lake with the reflection of the the forest and the sky and the clouds so that is god according to the example i'm giving where are we so we might be a fraction of that say one colorful leaf reflected in one tiny part of that water that's who i am for example or you are so we are a tiny fraction of the magnificence that is god so from god's perspective you're a tiny fraction but actually who we are and who god is is just that one water alone there is no forest there there is no leaf there there is no sky there there are no clouds there there's just water and water that's who we are and who god is and all of this is clear when you study vedanta you know how we analyze that mahavakya that thou art all the techniques we used the implied meaning we used we left out the godliness of god we left out the limitedness of the individual sentient being and we came to the underlying infinitude which is brahman okay let's stop here [Music] foreign [Music] you